This is all well and good, but in 9years I've never worked in a group with a Senior IC (Windows, IE, .NET), though some architects. So once again, a big part of your job is learning how to become a ninja at firguring out what your management wants from you -- even when they haven't articulated it in any kind of measurable way -- and then doing it. I suggest understanding why it is "No" first, truthfully accepting the point-of-view as pissed off as it may make you, and then having a self-directed action-plan to get on track. What if you and your manager are at the same level L62. When she finally left the company four years ago things improved greatly. I think that everyone has a bad year or 2 and you should not get worried about spending a lot of years in one level unless you have been on the same team for a long time.So my advice is1. (Summarized: Don't ever let your boss be frightened that you'll make him/her look bad. But the opportunities I see doing X seem to be compelling from a financial and growth standpoint. And I'm hiring, yes, in this economy. Maybe Steve Jobs' psychotic approach to managing by terror is not properly described in English as "junk yard dog mode" (standing up for what needs to be done vs. mind-numbing consensus wallowing). Its a bit like the famous phrase about the definition of obscenity. If that means doing something you don't want to do, you might need a different manager (or company). * One final important thought that hasn't been mentioned here and that is very dear to my heart is one that is not only specific to 63 but also to 65+, 66+, and 67+, and it is about moving up when you are a female at MSFT. The way to get to a higher level is to increase the scope of your contributions.In our group (somewhere in STB), L63 seems to begin with having at least 2 reports. He is a very, very smart guy.For many people, what made them successful as a level 62 IC will kill them as a level 62 manager. Does anyone know what the typical salary increase, measured in percentage, is for going from 62 to 63? Owning big features, knowledge about code base, ability to help your peers - irrelevant. When someone else is waiting on you for something, don't be the reason they can't get their shit done.4. . Write it down in a team-culture career section you keep in OneNote (start that section now if you don't have it). I might be still employed by Microsoft if I knew he wasnt doing it willingly.One thing I would do different if I could do it again is to not advance levels any faster than I have to. On the subject of switching teams: It's completely possible to move up by being really good exactly where you are, in most cases. I can vouch for the efficacy of this mantra.MS definitely does a good enough job on career progression and offering diverse options. Stop thinking of your Mgr as your adversary and listen to what they are telling you. Microsoft is so unique (and not in a good way) that you need to have blogs like this and focus on managing your career inside the hobbesian nightmare, rather than making good and cool software. The Senior Director provides leadership, establishes operational objectives, policies, procedures and works plans and oversee the program to ensure maximum profitability through efficient service delivery, effective client management, and strategic allocation of resources. I sat there at L64 for 5+ years. There is a comment about reporting to someone who is the same level as you are. IBM pulled themselves out of their decline by focusing on their customers. What are the levels for non eng roles? ALWAYS ask for a promotion. I think you should play some games while searching for you L63 promotions. The education qualifications required for various roles for Technical track are: The highest job title in management track in Microsoft is "Vice President (VP)". right? Oracle. Results-focused: they are focused on getting great results and don't entwine their ego to particular solutions. > What if you and your manager are at the same level L62. but I have to disagree with this statement.While it is true that it is difficult for managers to say what *exactly* an employee should do to get to the next level, it *should not* be impossible to list what experiences/qualities/results will qualify him to be a *strong* candidate for promotion to the next level.And this should not be that difficult - it is just a matter of syncing up with the peer leads, and dev manager, and discussing what their perception of an L63 is vs l62. After I became a lead & manager, I was given a team in turmoil after a re-org and straightened that out. Right now I am 56. Director of Business Development for ATALIAN Global Services, in a senior leadership role based in Singapore driving sustainable growth in Asia. I sympathize with folks who feel they have been shafted however to quote a cliched saying: the common factor between you and all your problems is you. I moved around 3 teams before I found one where I really enjoyed the technology and the people, and here I've flourished.So forget all the whining about politics and crap. Regarding the comment about the ability to own a room - This is a very good self-calibration technique. Joined MCS at level 60 and was immediately told that L61 would be years away. All of us have been asked to move to India by our parent company. Ultimately, I decided to leave the company. To know the real title you have to use headtrax and look for the Standard Title of the position. Should I trust my manager or is this just one more of his demonstrations of poor management skills? Will they reach L63? It doesn't matter what you want - you aren't the one deciding when you get promoted. Once you identify those things scream about it by sending email with problem and solution and offer leadership to eliminate that imperfection. Given that quite a few Microsofties are going to find themselves locked into their current group for a while, the ability to succeed by swinging on the vines to a new group is going to be rare. Unless you know for sure that your boss's answer is an immediate "Absolutely!" Finally, take heart and dont become too discouraged if this is taking a little longer than it seems like it should. Eventually, their team will remove itself from his control through internal transfers to teams with better managers, and the asshole ends up getting canned in a re-org if he doesn't see the writing on the wall and use his Apple resume entry to jump to some other company.The fact that you praise someone for "junk yard dog mode" shows me that Microsoft has a fundamentally broken corporate culture, and that you are part of the problem.-jcr, Think of the guy in the other companyI don't like where this is goingThat is the guy to beat.No, No, NO!Think of the customer, not the competition! You will make your management look good and the levels will come. It took him at least two months to integrate. I'm an SDE, so a large part of my time in the product cycle is spent fixing bugs. I would lay some level of accountability with management as well, though. Amazon A past co-worker of mine had the same thing done to him and now there are two devs doing what he did by himself.I guess Microsoft has its reasons. Fourth, repeat ad infinitum. EQ/IQ and Collaboration. Thats a very helpful answer. Get a free, personalized salary estimate based on today's job market. Taking on the toughest hardest problems does line up well with something everyone has talked about on this post - that is - make your managers look good. I spent 5 years on level 61. Eng, Go to company page I know devs who got in at the wrong level and paying the price because they didnt negotiate their level correctly when they joined. Happy hunting. If you think you will follow the management career path then get in such role as early as possible. What an achievement! Thanks.Sorry mini -- I meant the content of the comment I referenced, not the content of your original post (which I'm in violent agreement with). But it should definitely keep me up in the top of the class, and getting a nice review score + kudos + a job well done with results is a reward in itself (that I crave for more than the actual promotion).I have given this suggestion to Lisa, but I have not seen any action so far. Most are management types whose only skill is sucking up. Jobs are leveled, not people - make sure the job you have includes the scope needed for the level you want. Think Locally: remember three years back when we talked about the book Corporate Confidential? This is usually how teams start to rot from the inside. I wasn't sure I was going to get out of a couple of those situations but after everyone of them, I was stronger and smarter.Take the challenge and go after tough problems. Thanx for it. Discussion: First off, I'm going to be hard-core about comments here. For the folks on the path to L63, I want you to first understand your boss's opinion of you, your opinion of yourself, what it takes to succeed in your team, and then ways you can step up and be on the right path. Additional pay could include bonus, stock, commission, profit sharing or tips. However good your manager is, she or he is still a human with insecurities and ego. You forgot "never ask for a promotion".The one other thing that helped me go from L59 through >L64 was an absolute dedication to the strongest leaders, one level at a time. How accurate is this most likely Total Pay range (base + additional) of $396K-$652K/yr? The average salary for a Senior Director is $170,707 per year in United States, which is 65% lower than the average Microsoft salary of $500,742 per year for this job. "Ain't seen nothing yet" is a more popular variant of the same due to a song with that title and refrain. What advice do you have to pass on? Its a bit like the famous phrase about the definition of obscenity. Do a great job and you are likely to revise their expectations for the following cycle. "This is the lament of every person in every big company everywhere it's usually a combination of truth (most of us are capable of more than the roles we're currently filling) and hubris (if I had a nickel for ever junior person who over-estimated what they were capable of I'd be retired). My experience is a constant melee of *every* single person trying to influence cross-group. Promotion budgets of 65 and above has been kept intact.Can somebody from HR confirm this?If true then this post is quite untimely. I think your comments on level 63 were interesting. The downside to this view within the Microsoft culture is that you are always expected to keep climbing the ladder even if you are content with your current job and a solid performer in it. This employer has claimed their Employer Profile and is engaged in the Glassdoor community. Let's connect and I will happily share more about my background and accomplishment and how I can contribute to the success of your organization. If you can make the argument about the job - and you're in a position of strength, obviously harder now than in years past, you can make the case. 1. I am happy to be an L63, trying to get to L64 so I can relate.How I got here (I started as an industry hire 61 about 5 years ago):1. I've been at 59 for going on four years now, and was told by my manager over 2 years ago that I was totally ready and qualified for promotion to L60, but that "there wasn't enough budget" (yeah right), and this was in *Office* (a group which is clearly strapped for cash, I guess). Will there be room on your team? In this testing times what will motivate the mgr to put you ahead of him/hers? a Data Scientist 1. Be prepared for every possible question, scenario, disaster, etc. Don't give up.I'd appreciate it if you'd do a similar post on the 65 to 65 transition. She partners very closely with colleagues to develop and drive the people strategy across the UK GEO. Also, its important to keep in mind that it is impossible to provide a perfect definition of any level. It varies greatly from manager to skip.The hardest point for me to bear is that I am young, capable of doing so much more, and absolutely dying to do more. Apple should in no way be throwing stones at Microsoft in this regard. Nobody will be shy of firing you if you make a big mess. If you're a manager, what's your L63 promotion philosophy? . Your analysis is very true, specially the part about owning the room and be regarded as the domain expert. Microsoft employees make an average base salary of $208k & a total compensation of $280k. Can any reader in Corp Sales Excellence(SMS&P) privide guidance on how to grow from 63 to 64 in that group. You can forge a great partnership and accomplish a lot. If you have potential and luck then you can achieve promotion velocity of one level every 18 months.Finally, heres my advice for who aspire for L62->L63 jump: Look around. That is, its hard to define, but I know it when I see it. >> You forgot "never ask for a promotion".That's the absolute worst advice one can give to a Microsoft employee, IMO. * Sell yourself: I know it sounds odd and contradictory. Now it's up to me to do whatever it takes to make *them* great, even if it doesn't benefit my product directly. I am not saying the manager is trying to sabotage, but when push comes to shove will you get the impactful project. You try that in subs (who actually generate the revenue, HQ typically dont) - but the question is - do they dare push such a thing in the US? If you're going into that comfort zone of complaining about politics and butt-kissing and favorites, do me this favor: hold your right palm up, nice and flat like you're about to be sworn in to testify in a trial, and now extend your right arm out nice and wide, and then quickly swing your right arm around the front of you in a nice arc that ends with the flat of your right hand quickly connecting to the left side of your face for a hard, resounding slap. Secondly, finding a suitable mentor to help them overcome that weakness. What's worse is the noise this creates. I've been hearing some stealth layoffs around the SQL and BOSG groups, around 70+ people were given 6(?) But the people in the team are below 65. So he is looking to become partner this year on the team's work. How about a thread on the current hiring/moving freeze, or on surviving the New Ice Age? then do you know what more you need to do? The technical and management ladder in Microsoft is highly competitive and is highly regarded in the Industry. They just plain resonate. Title doesn't matter, that's a job description. That's why Microsoft is pissing away the monopoly that you inherited from IBM. Mini: Great topic! Managers plan out promotion timeframes far in advance. I drove my 59-62 agenda with an iron fist and it didn't matter so much that I didn't play well with others or work to help other teams who were struggling.I became a manager during that time and had a year of major hiccups while trying to break through to 63 -- all of a sudden the fact that I was a unilateral force was working *against* me and not for me. Seniority level Director Employment type Full-time Job function Management and Manufacturing Industries IT Services and IT Consulting, Computer Hardware Manufacturing, and Software Development. This is an opportunity to really do great work and innovate - learn to do your best work in the face of adversity and limited budgets and you will most likely to do well. This means there are 24 distinct job levels at Microsoft. Not only do I have a much more interesting job with much less BS, I make more money as well. But more likely youre displaying the hallmark of a weak performer described in the article of the same name (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/01/18/MN73840.DTL). I've seen L65's who can't own a cardboard box, let alone a room.Well you know, don't go for them for advice! See next bullet. > Lots of very true points. I haven't talked to anyone internally that has anything good to say about it. So either keep slapping yourself or choose to wake up. Within the comments, I hope to elicit advice that follows up on what I start here, and maybe even contradicts it. And the place where MS has the most non-contributing overheads is Redmond. and I would love to be above 60much less 63. I have known some that do what is barely enough for "achieve" just because it is safe. for 63 promo within a more clear timeline. Facebook, Go to company page Let's Hear it for the Boy! Continue to do so until you've slapped yourself silly to the point that you're not complaining about how other folks must just be connected or political or adept at the finer art of buttock tongue massage.